SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
President Trump is suing The Wall Street Journal for reporting that he contributed a suggestive letter and drawing to a 50th birthday gift for Jeffrey Epstein. The president says he made no such drawing. He denies any involvement in Epstein's crimes and instructed the U.S. Justice Department to ask a U.S. district court to unseal the grand jury files in Epstein's case. It's all after a contentious debate this week in Congress and among many of President Trump's supporters. Representative Ro Khanna, the California Democrat, joins us now. Representative Khanna, thanks for being with us.
RO KHANNA: Good morning.
SIMON: You've called for releasing all the files on the Epstein case. What files and why?
KHANNA: We need full transparency. We need the interview memos to see which rich and powerful men were involved with Jeffrey Epstein. We need to see the emails, the texts. We need to, of course, protect victim identity, but the president promised this when he campaigned. Pam Bondi, the attorney general, promised this. And we have a majority of the House that wants these released.
SIMON: Why do you think it's an important issue for the American people now?
KHANNA: It goes to the heart of trust in government. It goes to the heart of whether our government is granting impunity to the rich and the powerful who may have abused, assaulted abandoned young girls, or whether we're going to stand up for children and stand up for truth. And many people view it as an issue of whether our government in Washington has been corrupted.
SIMON: When you say that many people view this as an issue of government corruption, are you among them?
KHANNA: I believe the president has raised the stakes. I believe that the fact that he campaigned on transparency and that he's not releasing this, something doesn't smell right and that there is - needs to be a release. And if there's not a release, it's going to further erode trust in government. My view is get everything out there. Otherwise, you're going to have new questions. And no one knows what's in the files because they have not been released and the president has made all these claims about them.
SIMON: You mentioned on - the House floor have even called for - agree, as it turns out, with the president releasing grand jury proceedings. As I don't have to tell you, grand jury proceedings are rarely released because the defense isn't represented there, and hearsay and lies can go unchallenged and unproven. Do you worry that innocent people could have their names dragged into this case?
KHANNA: Well, two things. First, on the grand jury, he needs a court to grant the release, and that's one of the reasons I think he's done that because the courts may not. Second, most of that grand jury evidence is going to be about Epstein and Maxwell. It's not going to be about the other individuals. But your broader point is correct. DOJ policy is that you don't release things unless you charge someone because you don't want innocents caught up. The problem is that when you have the attorney general saying that there is an Epstein client list, when you have the president campaigning on releasing Epstein files, when you have people wondering whether there are national security leaders, foreign leaders involved, the issue has become too big. And so the president should do a one-time exception, say this is not precedent-setting, but we are going to release the files, and I have the United States Congress, Republicans and Democrats agreeing with me.
SIMON: I suspect I don't have to tell you about the figure that Jeffrey Epstein cut in high society, and he was photographed with many high-profile people, including Bill Clinton, former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, former Maine Senator George Mitchell, all of them Democrats, none accused of a crime. Do you have any concerns that this attention to a now-dead man's misdeeds just adds fuel to the worst kind of conspiracy theories?
KHANNA: Well, I believe that sunlight is the biggest disinfectant. When you release all of the files, if it turns out that there are politicians caught up in it because he was giving money to a lot of people, and you know that in Washington, people have to solicit donations and run into people, I think the American people will be fair. I think they will be able to say, OK, these people were caught up in it because Jeffrey Epstein was a donor, but there also may be evidence of people who did wrong things, and that should come out. I believe the American people will be fair in making a judgment about any particular individual.
SIMON: And let me ask you lastly about this. Former speaker Nancy Pelosi said this on Thursday on MSNBC.
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NANCY PELOSI: Whether it's Jeffrey Epstein or Alcatraz, it's all off the subject of what they're doing with this budget that is harmful to the kitchen table, meeting the kitchen table needs of the American people.
SIMON: Is the Epstein issue just a distraction from the real interests of the American people right now?
KHANNA: It is not because it goes to the most important issue, which is can government be trusted by the American people? Look, Donald Trump is cutting Medicaid, he is cutting food assistance, he is destroying universities. He is deporting people without due process. But at the core of taking back our democracy is restoring trust in government. And given that so many Americans feel that this government is on the side of the rich and powerful, people who have their thumb on the scale, we need to restore people's confidence, and the release of the Epstein files is a first step in doing that. Epstein has become a symbol for corruption in government.
SIMON: California Democrat Ro Khanna. Representative, thanks so much.
KHANNA: Thank you. Appreciate it. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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